Darren.

First off one thing I would like to say is HAVE YOUR PASSPORT when you book. We now as an agent already ask for passport details on upwards of 50% of our bookings.

Tour companies have already been collecting this data. Let’s not forget that countries like Spain, USA, and Australia have already been doing this…… But then so have we. There has been a full test of the system over the last few years with millions of records being collected.

As submitting your information securely, well the UK government has a good record on that (take tax etc.), the problem comes is what they do with the data when they have it. But with regards to your passport details, they already have it anyway…why do you think they scan passports at immigration.

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It’s not practical to ask people to have their passport with them when they book, and should never be made a requirement. So long as the details are provided in good time then there’s no problem. Personally, if there was a small charge for not providing the information in advance, I would take that option and queue to show it at the airport rather than have it passed around various third parties and systems before it getting to who needs it.

I think the issue doesn’t just lay with the government collecting the data, it’s the retail shops, tour operators and then them passing it on to the airlines for checkin etc. which is also in question.

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I agree with Nick on giving out the passport details to the Travel Agent at the time of booking. In Chennai (India) I had always given my details to my Agent.

But, Daren, yes email is definitely an unsafe method. A fake mail ID could be easily created with a wrong spelling mistake (may be just one character wrong) and people might think its an authenticated email ID and they will send their passport details to that ID. Also, what if travelers send the passport details to some other mail ids by mistake.

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Hello Darren,

I think that you have raised interesting and valid points. I have been collecting passport details and sending them by fax and email for 10 years. In Asia. I am not aware of security being abused but maybe I wouldn’t know that. I always took the security of the passport and the copied data as paramount. I simply over-looked the issue of data loss enroute or data stealing anywhere on the line and the data does go from one to another, by email from one agent to another for bookings, authorities and head counts.

The issues of security are quite poor in ordinary transmission. You can see the indemnity clauses left right and centre on any official email. The guarantees have to be raised. The technology is probably available, it just needs to be analysed for incidents of breeches. The other point is that if there are good secure email sytems then even the small agents have to use them in any part of the world for true security. That’s certainly not happening now.

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But, why is e-Borders collecting the passport data? What will they do with it? Whats the use? Can someone explain please.

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I’ve filled in so many of those immigration forms on planes that I can remember all the relevant passport details without looking, but I never like handing the actual passport over to third parties.

You may be overplaying the security implications though – you routinely have to hand over passport details when staying in hotels (and even when using internet cafés in Italy). I don’t see why a travel agent would be any different.

That said, if the UK signed up for Schengen, it’d cut a lot of this unnecessary faffing around out instantly.

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Darren

Travel agents have held passport details for decades (if you book a cruise or escorted tour for example). We also held all the details with regards to your payment; we have your date of birth. Security in the industry is very good, probably better than banks or even other business. In the report you mentioned staff details not customer, we are probably more aware of safe guarding the customers details then our own.

How do we enter passport details? Normally these are done via our internal systems, we even have our own postal service. However more and more we are using government secure websites, this is not our choice.

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@ David
Schengen is a visa system and would not affect issues like this as has been proven by the Spanish, who require passport or ID card details already. If the UK had an ID card it would make travelling in the EU easier.

@ TTH
Darren has provided a link; basically they want the data before you arrive instead of on arrival. The idea is if there is a problem it is flag up before instead of sitting at immigration.

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If memory serves, this is a practice that El Al, the Israeli airline, has had in place for a long, long time. Its broader adoption happened after 9/11. According to 60 Minutes, an American new magazine, El Al starts querying querying, interpol, fbi, and every crime database to which it has access the moment a reservation is made. Passport info only expedites the process, I imagine.

So, it’s probably a minor nuisance, but, I totally agree, sending passport info via email is a totally different proposition from entering it via a secured form to a trusted source. The mode of transmission must be secure, and email is definitely not.

It would be nice if laws were to catch up with technology. It’s a perennial lament, it seems.

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We booked our holiday yesterday and surprisingly we were asked to email our passport details as we had not taken them to the travel agent. I refused to, and asked them what other methods were available.

I was told that we could take the passports in and photocopy them.

I am not happy with this. This is the first time that we have been asked.

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The main point here this rant is about the UK. But this will be standard across all G20 countries’ plus some others in the next couple of years. So every one will be affected. Also why it will be common to be asked for your passport details.

Remember agents do not wish to do this; we do not get paid to do it. We have to submit them to the government that requires them. Why do we take photocopies because it is easiest way, rather than you read out every piece of information on your passport and we right it down, this way mistakes are more likely and how pleased will you be to be banned from travelling because of a misunderstanding.

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I’ve been happy to give my passport details to online travel agents, via their SSL encrypted websites, in the past for my own convenience. Same goes for a number of airlines with rewards programs.

However, as you say the British government do not have the best track record at storing our data securely.

The key things about online travel agents, (e.g. people like Expedia), are that a) they’ve worked hard to earn our confidence and trust, b) the choice is still up to the user, and c) they have to answer to their customers, whose data they take.

Looking at the e-borders website you link to, does not inspire me with confidence. Additionally, this type of ‘monopolistic’ position (for lack of a better word) in terms of having 95% of all passengers’ data creates one point of failure, and also tends to lead to complacency with organisations that basically don’t have any competition to drive them to continue proving themselves to the public.

Another key difference here, is that the people whose data e-borders is holding here, aren’t their customers – so they’re primary concern isn’t going to be to answer to them, unlike a commercial company.

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@ Gsp

Just wondered if you ever travelled to the UK and had your passport checked on entry. If so all your details are already on the database. This is not a new database, just a way of placing the information on the database earlier.

When you entered your information on web booking sites, where did you think the information went? (Because the only reason any agent/operator collects this information is to pass to a goverment).

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everytime i go abroad and come back to the uk i get a strange long hard surprised stare from from the passport officer at manchester airport !
dunno why to this day ,but every year it happens

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