Since XL Leisure Group went into administration in September 2008 we have heard repeatedly that the most secure way to book our holiday is through an ATOL bonded agency, which is all well and good, but what happens when they go into administration and you are left waiting six months for a refund.
Complaints received by Travel Rants
In the last month Travel Rants has received an inbox full of emails from disgruntled consumers who are still waiting for their money to be refunded. The biggest complaint is the lack of communication from the Civil Aviation Authority and the travel agencies who took their bookings.
Email upon Email has been sent to the CAA for advice and assistance and nothing is forthcoming. The lack of information from them is shocking, and yes, I understand that they received over 200,000 claims but come on, it is now nearly April 2009, that’s six months since XL Leisure Group went into administration.
Lost claims, consumers frustrated
Other issues have been lost claim forms, some consumers have been caught up in the Travel Republic and Civil Aviation saga. Some consumers have been owned up to £6,000 in refunds. One group of consumers were told that their claim was received, and then three months later when they finally got through to the CAA again, they were told that the claims were lost.
This saga has me wondering if we really need to worry about booking with an ATOL agency, and do we need to do is book our holiday on a credit card, and if the agency goes into administration then it’s quicker to claim a refund through credit card protection then it is through the Civil Aviation Authority.
Lack of communication channels
Common sense tells you that you know you are going to receive thousands of calls from worried, confused consumers, so set up a helpline, set up a blog, or a media where people can receive information, it would have saved consumers from becoming so stressed.
Nearly six months on consumers are still waiting for their refunds, some of the people I have been communicating with through email have finally received their refund, but what about everyone else? I have tried to contact the CAA today on this issue, but, unable to get through at the moment.
I will update this post when I do, to get their response.
Disappointed families
Without the refund many consumers have had to tell their children that they won’t be going on holiday, so you can imagine how upsetting this saga has been, and many of the consumers I have communicated with feel that the Civil Aviation Authority have not dealt with this professionally or responsibly.
Another XL collapse is around the corner
The current economical climate means that there’s a chance that we could have another XL Leisure Group on our hands, so what lessons will have being made. Probably none. Whilst the claims process for many was tiresome and needless in the age of technology, the communication is probably one of the easiest issues to fix.
You only have to read the comments in the CAA claim posts I wrote in 2008 to realise that people just want their money returning, they want to get on the holiday that they were looking forward to taking, and they want the CAA to communicate with them.
Your comments and opinions
I am interested to hear from consumers who have been affected in this XL Leisure Group Saga and from people within the industry of their experiences and where the industry can improve the process the next time this happens, because it will happen again.
Related posts
- CAA needs to improve its process for refunding claims
- XL Leisure Group Plc goes into administration
- FlyGlobespan flies into administration
- Impact on ATOL renewals for travel consumers
- ABTA’s handling of administration is appalling
Not found what you came here for? Ask your travel questions and receive a personal response.
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Julia | 31 March, 2009 at 12:20 pm
I know your heading is about the refunds, but ATOL is more than that.
XL Leisure Group ceased trading as of 12 Sep 08. ATOL arranged a total of 94 repatriation flights by 14 Sep 08, which carried over 22,000 customers of the failed holiday company XL.
A further 30,000 people that were on holiday at the time of the collapse were able to continue their holidays in the knowledge that ATOL would arrange their flight home.
Your credit card company won’t do that.
Lee Harrison | 31 March, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Whilst Julias Post is extremely accurate and True, I do find it incredible that legitimate Claims are taking so long to sort out. Speaking to the CAA, they said themselves that when they try to telephone CEGA who are handling the claims, they could take 15 minutes to answer the phones or 15 Hours!! In My clients experience they just cannot stand hearing those incessant beeps whilst waiting for more than 20 Minutes.
And all you see on the CAA Site is this
“The CAA is receiving a large number of claims from customers who had advanced bookings with XL Leisure Group tour operator.
Due to this high volume there is a delay in acknowledging and processing claims. If you have not yet received an acknowledgement or a decision on whether you have a valid claim, please accept our sincere apologies. We will be in touch with you as soon as we can.”
I Do apprecite that this was an extremely large collapse for the CAA and it is important to re-iterate Julias Post above, and the value of booking with an atol holder and Travel Agent, but more has to be done in Customer relationships and speedy refunds where legitimate
Nick | 31 March, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Darren
I can see where your coming from, speaking to the claim handlers things are a mess, it takes time to train these people and they almost finshed most of the claims. A collapse like this has happens less than every 10 years (last was 1992)and each time the response is slow. In saying that all our customers where paid out (bar 1) by early January, because we took the time to make sure all the paperwork was correct. I received a phone call on the missing payment last week because the customer had realized they had not received it. While on the phone to the CAA I asked them about how it was going and the person I spoke to said most people who where ringing in had not read the letters they had been sent about missing paperwork in there claims. In my customer’s case it was more simple the claim was fine, the person who processed it had not pressed the button to confirm it was ready for payment.
You can also ask your travel agent (if you used one) to assign the claim, which means you can book a new holiday and the monies paid to the failed company are put to it. Therefore saving you the trouble of paying again.
Last update from the CAA as per there website is. (there is a update page on the caa website that gives out information)
As of week ending 10 March the CAA has received 58,711 claims and has paid out over £15.8 million to customers that held advanced bookings with the XL Leisure Group’s four tour operators.
Denise Baron | 6 April, 2009 at 6:31 am
I have had a claim reference no. from the CAA since November 2008. Since then Travel Republic who I booked the holiday & flights with have told me to deal with CAA direct. If only I could deal with them – if you telephone its a pre-recorded message, if you email or fax there is no response. All I want to know is – when will refund be made. It is now six months later and nothing.
A letter from Travel Republic in March 2009 said that the CAA were going to send me yet another form to complete – todate this form has not been received and T.Republic answer is deal with the CAA as they have done all they can.
Nick | 6 April, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Denise,
Sorry to hear about your problems, you are one of many that are stuck with there claim as the CAA says Travel Republic was not trading within the law. The CAA has made the following statement.
Some travel agents sold a flight sourced from Freedom Flights with accommodation and/or car rental from another source for their customers in an arrangement which appears to be a package as set out in the Package Travel Regulations 1992. It is the CAA and ATT’s view that some travel agents are legally responsible for providing customers with their refunds in these cases.
However, the ATT trustees are concerned that customers should not suffer the inconvenience and potential cost involved in claiming a refund from their travel agent, which could involve having to take legal action. Consequently, having considered this carefully with its lawyers, the ATT has taken the decision to make exceptional payments to claimants in return for an assignment so that the ATT can start the process of recovering monies from travel agents.
Establishing the legal position and reaching a decision on settling claims has complicated the claims handling process since each claim has to be individually considered before claimants can be written to with their assignment.
In the meantime, the CAA is preparing claims for settlement so that once an assignment form has been signed and returned, refunds can be made quickly.
There are 10′000 of claims and this will take the CAA about 6 weeks to work though, this is a problem customers have with companies the CAA warned last July. Hopfully your claim will be sorted soon.
Nick | 6 April, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Darren while on the above it made be worth while providing the correct telephone numbers.
We are continuing to receive a large volume of calls and our lines are very busy. If you need to contact us about your claim, please use the contact information and claim reference provided in our acknowledgment. If you have not received an acknowledgment, please use the information shown here. Please be patient if you are not able to get through straightaway.
Travel City Direct Claims: 020 7453 6350
Freedom Flights Claims: 01243 621 009
Kosmar & Aspire Claims: 01243 621 444
Also worth noteing this from the CAA.
Since we are applying as many of our resources as possible to settling claims, telephone calls will not be answered as quickly as they would in normal circumstances. If you would prefer to send an email, you can expect a reply within 7 working days.
jacqui | 13 April, 2009 at 12:21 am
I just thought i would add that I have emailed as per instructions since january and have not yet had a single reply ? telephoning is also a nightmare.
Jo McLaren | 13 April, 2009 at 10:49 pm
Just reading a few people’s comments where they say they have received a letter from Travel republic about another form to sign. We booked with Travel Republic but have received no letter from them. Is this a bad sign do you think? Does this mean our claim hasn’t even been looked at? We sent all the paperwork through in September. Or could it just be that they don’t need the form signing for our claim. Just getting a bit anxious. We rebooked our flights with Thomson for this August believing that we would have the refund back before needing to pay for the flights – now it’s a possibility that we won’t!
kelly | 14 April, 2009 at 8:21 pm
I received a phone call today off CAA. I had also booked through travel republic and they just did not want to know – just deal with the CAA. Would have been easier if I could ever get through to them!!! I emailed MANY times!!! We were booked to go in october 08, we asked travel republic if they could transfer us to different flights but they wanted us to pay the difference, which was appaling as the prices had tripled since XL went bust. Anyway, received a call today and my claim has finally been processed and should be in the bank in 8 days! Happy days! Good luck to everyone still waiting to hear about your claims!! xx
Jennifer Robinson | 14 April, 2009 at 8:34 pm
I received my claim number from CEGA back in November, and have heard nothing from them since.
I’m going on holiday at the end of April, and was hoping to have my money back by then, but that’s not looking very likely now.
It makes a mockery of the whole system
Christine Fry | 15 April, 2009 at 10:38 am
Oh how I wish emails would be answered in 7 days. I was contacted about 24 days ago, CAA stated they needed yet MORE information. I provided all the information and ticked all the boxes along with my original claim. However I provided them again within minutes of their email. I then emailed 14 days ago and I am still awaiting a response. Telephoning is useless too. My original claim was sent in November and it is now APRIL and I’m still waiting. What a joke!!!! If all businesses acted like this I wonder how the country would run.
L.Evans | 17 April, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Having booked & paid £725 for a package holiday to Rhodes with Qwerty Travel in June 08,they then informed me of XL failure in Sept 08 & requested a further £518 in order to save my holiday. Necessary claim details were sent to Qwerty in Sept 08 & in Nov 08 CEGA acknowledged safe receipt of claim & identified it with CAA Claim;649930. I was also assured CEGA would contact me soon regarding status of claim.
That was the first & last correspondance from CEGA & 6months later I still await payment or reply. Should I resort to claiming the monies owed, via Mastercard Visa, as both payments were made on my card,or continue to wait on CEGA,as many other folks are?
Your advice would be appreciated, Len Evans.
Nick | 18 April, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Lee
I would suggest something simple has happened and no ones aware that you have not been paid out (This happened with two of our claims, in one case the paperwork had been scanned in wrong, in another someone had not entered the pay code). To sort the matter out I rang CEGA on 01243 621 444, it took 2 attempts and about 20 minutes of holding before I spoke to a person. When I did they sorted it out in about 10 minutes and 3 days latter our client got confirmation of bank payment. Looking at what you have written I do not think you have contacted CEGA, I would make this your first port of call. Do not e-mail them, when I last spoke to them they have one person dealing with e-mails and they can deal with about 100 per day, they are currently receiving around 300. For your information, there are just 2 people on the phone lines and until this week they had diverted ABTA claim staff to assist with this, now due to freedom failure I do not think that will last.
All the agents I have spoken to on this have had all there claims settled now which received claim numbers before xmas, however there has been problems (claims approved and not paid) with all the agents, so it may be that a phone call is need to check this.
A lot of people have asked why they do not recruit more staff, the simple answer is they have to be trained and pass exams before dealing with claims, this takes about 6 months so even if they recruited staff these staff would not be able to handle claims till next month at the earliest, which is about the time the back log will be cleared.
stan | 23 April, 2009 at 3:17 pm
i booked with tcd dep paid by cc by one passenger and 6 payments made by 2 x other passengers ,claim was rejected and told to claim from cc,however wrote to them as due to personal circumstances i cant claim from the credit card as it is no longer in use therefore the people who paid their share would not be able to get their money back ,i rang them after sending the letterexplaining this and they said they were awaiting legal advice on the situation along with many other claims in a similar position ,they then wrote to me and said they have reopened my claim,i am now wating again ,rang today and as another airline has gone bust theyare notanswering and they have took my number to get someone to call me ,i doubt that will happen as i have done that before ,sent an email and got an autimated responce from that ,total waste of time ,mine is not a bit of money its just short of £5000 ,will i have a better chance or quicker if i assign the claim to the passenger who paid the bulk of the money on their debit card?
linda harrison | 24 April, 2009 at 11:14 am
I am another of the clients of xl who have still not had their money back. I have been trying to speak to CEGA for months with no success. I have emailed them, and that is a waste of time. My travel agent is not much use, I cannot get any information from them other than CEGA are dealing with it. Just on the off chance before I wrote this email I decided once again to ring CEGA and I got through. They say they are waiting for information from my travel agent and then they will pay out. Once again I spoke to my travel agent who say they have sent all the information. I cannot win. I am now about to write to my travel agent’s head office and see if anyone there is of any use. I will never book a holiday through a travel agent again, I have no confidence in them and they just do not seem to care. I have wondered whether to instruct solicitors as I paid the travel agent, and presumably my contract is with them.
Nick | 24 April, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Linda
From your comments it seems you have booked with one of the larger chains of agencies, they will have someone in charge of these claims at there head office, have you tried ring the head office?
Please do not tar all agency’s with the same brush. I am an independent travel agent and have spoken to others around me, we have all had all or customers claims settled, but this was mostly down to chasing CAA or CEGA a few times.
Mr Jack Monks | 26 April, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Hi,
We are absolutely sick and tired of trying to get a refund from CAA, we received a claims number in December 2008 and heard nothing at all I rang in March ‘09 to see if anything was getting sorted out and after waiting 15 mins on the phone finally got through for someone to say they needed yet another document from us and to send it recorded delivery, no-one had contacted us regarding this document so if I hadn’t of rung we would not have known anything about this. I rang again 2 wks ago to see if anything further was happening to be told they had received our confirmation document and would be sure it would be sorted out soon, as yet we have heard nothing. This has been going on since last September we paid again for flights and are going in June ‘09 we were hoping to have out money back by now but are slowly giving up all hope.
Sara Hart | 27 April, 2009 at 11:33 am
Looks like its not just me having a nightmare! Our claim went into to CAA in October 08 – over 29 weeks ago. We were travelling and booked with friends who paid their deposit by credit card, and in early Jan 09 the claim was returned asking to claim via HBOS. He has duly done this and has now been paid in full, unfortunately they will not entertain our part of the claim and have returned us with a letter confirming this to CAA. Every time I call (and get through) I just get fobbed off with different stories and am really fustrated. The only bright spot is that we aparantly have quite a low reference number which should be looked at quite quickly. I just dont know where to turn next. Does anyone have any idea just how long this may take. All the phone lines today seem to be blocked, you can get through but after listening to various dribble for 3 or 4 minutes are asked to call back later – AHHHHHH
jackie | 29 April, 2009 at 1:38 pm
booked a flight with freedom direct it was a FREEDOM FLIGHT NOW FREEDOM DIRECT HAVE GONE BUST AS WELL AS XL STILL NOT GOT ANY MONEY BACK AND HAVE NOT HEARD ANYTHING SINCE I RECEIVED CLAIM NUMBER IN DECEMBER NOW I AM EXPECTING DOUBLE TROUBLE
Trish | 6 May, 2009 at 1:34 pm
I Have been reading the blogs here ,and thought I would add my story which culminates today in a very frustrating telephone covnersation wiht CAA.
Due to fly last September to Crete booked through apollo travel, which we later found out booked through really great holdiay company booked thorugh XL, confused we were !
Two days before due to fly we got a claim form through the post, no explanation.
Spoke with agents who explained my holiday was through XL.I had booked using credit card and had paid in full (£750). Sent all paperwork back immediatley registred post, only to find that my travel agent never sent my claim onto CAA as it was supposed to ,so 3 months wasted.
Finally on Christmans eve last year the CAA ackownledged my claim. I tried chasing it for a further 3 months but they ignore letters, e-mails, and the majority of the phone numbers either are constantly engaged or cut off after one ring !
Finally I got to speak to someone who said they hadn’t processed my claim further and blamed me as I didnt send them the ATOL invoice. But they never got back in touch to ask for anything ! ,. I explained I never had an ATOL invoice but did have my agents statment showing I had paid in full. Today finally got thorugh to be met with the most disgraceful example of customer services. I appreciate they are inundated but to be told to “go away, wait until September becaue we are sick of the calls !!!! ” just not accpetable. the other issue is they sub out the claims to an agency who are even more shambolic and I was told that even if he could get on agency system ” whats the point”
I told him waiitng 8 months to be re-imbursed is the point. If they made some sort of attempt to even have proper system of tracking claims it would alleviate the frustration. I did synpahtese but have waited 8 months now, and he wasnt interested, just spoke over me evertytime i tried to speak. What a complete shambles. So basically stop asking wait until Septmeber and hope they process your claim.
Pete Corker | 13 May, 2009 at 7:35 pm
I have been chasing my claim through CEGA and have had to submit all details twice over the last 8 months. Have had email contact with them that at one stage said my claim was going through. However today I actually got through on the phone to CEGA who told me that the claim was sent for payment on April 7th but the “Authoriser” had sent it back to ATOL as there was a query regarding my travel agent (Just the Flight). I therefore rang ATOL today (13th May 2009) who said they had never received any information from CEGA. I am therefore stuck between a rock and a hard place and cannot see me getting any reimbursement whatsoever. Has a group been formed to take legal action?
Pete
Linda Harrison | 14 May, 2009 at 11:37 am
Just read email from Pete Corker. Know how he feels. I asked in my last email whether or not it would be possible to sue the travel agent. If you buy goods from a store your contract is with the store and you can sue them for any wrong doings. Does the travel industry have different values. If anyone is setting up a group to form legal action let me know, I will gladly join. Stil not received my money back after 8 months.
Nick | 15 May, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Linda
You can not sue any private body over government action. The CAA is a government department.
You can not sue the person you buy a TV from over a television license for example.
Nick | 15 May, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Linda
In none of your post have you stated the agent you have book though, if you let me know this I may be able to help you.
Trish | 19 May, 2009 at 3:42 pm
well following my post here on 6th May…..Oh my God, I thought this day would never come….finally I have received confirmation and money paid in full back into my account. Only took 8 months.
David | 19 May, 2009 at 3:47 pm
I booked a holiday on 11/09/08 with First Choice, who in turn, subbed it through Kosmar. I submitted my claim to the CAA, who still haven’t got back to me, not even an acknowledgment of my claim. Section 75 of the consumer credit act doesn’t apply so I can’t even get my money back throught my credit card company.
First choice are unwilling to assign the claim via them and for them to pay for another holiday.
john dixon | 19 May, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Having booked a holiday last year with sunsave travel agents, and gone through the process in claiming and waiting forever sending information back and forth we have now been told our claim is not going through we are unable to claim, the tour operator is atol protected we paid by debit card and the excuse from cega is theres no contractual docs suggesting we were contracted with freedom flights even though there is valid proof on the booking invoice and they have all documentation sent to them it is their opinion we should claim off sunsave the operator. Is there anyhelp here who do we contact etc… we are not going to give up because we have paid for a holiday and assumed we would be protected by ATOL .
Mike De'Ath | 21 May, 2009 at 11:09 am
Lost flight in November 08, still waiting May 09. Cega is a joke, CAA is a joke, call this insurance and protection. Tried repeatedly to get through on claim line. What a waste of time and energy. Waited on line listening to popping crackly music for ages. Does not matter what time of day you call, you never get through. Discussed with it all. To add insult to injury here is CEGAs web page
Welcome to CEGA Group
There to help
Welcome to CEGA Group – one of the UK’s leading independent claims management and emergency medical assistance companies.
With an outstanding reputation for delivering the optimum combination of quality service and cost control, CEGA represents some of the best known brands in the insurance, banking and corporate sectors.
Makes me gag.
Lee Harrison | 21 May, 2009 at 3:57 pm
UPDATE TO EARLIER POST.
My Client contacted me to say they were still waiting to hear from CEGA having had no correspondence since last October. We thought that the client must have been paid, as we had not heard from the client again, until the day before yesterday.
We sent an e-mail on our clients behalf to CEGA and within 24 hours had a Phone Call.
Apparently CEGA sent a letter to my client on January 29th stating the Claim was valid and the amount re-imbursed to my clients Bank account.
My client did not receive the letter and hadn’t thought of checking her bank statement. We gave our client the good news and she immediatly went and found that indeed the Claim had been refunded to her Bank account in January.
My Client then informed me she felt a bit guilty as she used to work in a Bank and should really check her statements more often.
At least we have a happy ending.
Nick | 22 May, 2009 at 9:25 am
John
If you book flight and accommodation though sunsave, then the CAA is correct and they have to refund you. If you booked a flight only, then you need to go back to CAA. Dispute details on there website.
Pete Corker | 22 May, 2009 at 10:18 am
22nd May 2009. Well I’m in the money as I have just checked my account and the full £1250 is in there. Notified yesterday by post. There is hope for everybody yet. Thanks to Travel Rants for keeping me company with others in the same situation. Might just have a celebration dinner tonight.
Pete
Linda Harrison | 27 May, 2009 at 1:43 pm
27th May and like the previous writer I’m also in the money. My bank account was credited with the full amount today. I was notified last Friday that I would be paid. There is light at the end of the tunnell. I would just like to say that the worst problem in this nightmare is the lack of communication all round. In future I will pay for any holiday by credit card, because I find it unacceptable to have to wait from September last year until now to obtain a refund.
My sympathies go out to those people who are having problems getting their money back. I will still continue to read all the messages.
Linda
Linda Rowley | 29 May, 2009 at 4:18 pm
TODAY I have received a letter today 29th May 2009 from CAA stating I have not completed section 8 of the claims form.
In October when I sent my claim to Hays Travel I was informed within two weeks section 8 had not been signed. However, I knew this was incorrect as I had copy of the forms I had sent to them infront of me whilst speaking to the customer service person. I was kindly given the web address to download the form and on the same day completed section 8 yet again and posted this first class to Hays Travel for process. In February 2009 I received a letter from CAA stating my claim was being processed but if I contacted them by telephoned this my delay the claim.
You can see how frustrated I am as I have now had to go back to Hays who will have to send me the claim form again (but not until Monday as the post has been done!). They will send me a stamped addressed envelope to sent section 8 back and they will fax the this to CAA. This must have been what happened previously and I have been told in the letter from CAA that only original pages will be accepted. It seems that as with many travellers that the documents are either being lost or not processed correctly and in this economic climate people want their money. We paid for another holiday last year after the XL collapse – something we had not planned for and still not received our money back. What is happening – if I did not act immediately on a customer complaint then I would not be doing my job professionally. I understand there has been thousands of claims but to lose documentation and stress people out is not acceptable. Watch this space maybe section 8 again next week will be lost and I could be in the same boat this time next year waiting for my money back. I would like to be in the same situation as Linda above and have my money in my account.
paula | 11 June, 2009 at 8:13 pm
like many others i have now been waiting since last september for my refund after numorous emails and phone calls plus sending my details 4 times by specail delivery costing £5.45 each time only to be told thry have been mislaid or need more info im now at my wits end
Sara Hart | 12 June, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Still waiting, last week I was asked again (4th time now) to send all the relevant information, this was duly done, a couple of days later I received a letter addressed to my fellow traveller asking him to send section 8 of the form duly completed by myself, they had attached a copy of the form originally received, and to my dismay had all the relevant signatures on already! we seem to be going round and round in circles with this and getting no-where, at our wits end or what?
On a happy note, we are going on holiday to France on Tuesday , no planes this time, and if the ferry company goes under (excuse the pun) I will swim there with my blow up dalmation dingy , so we are going to have 10 days of sun (hopefully, although is is rainy at the moment) and return to the slog of trying to get our funds back from CAA.
Alan Green | 28 June, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Like everbody else I have been waiting since last September. I sent all the relevant forms and things to my travel agent (Freedom Direct). They have now gone under as well. I have just recieved a letter from the CAA asking me for the original ATOL reciept. Lucky that I made a copy of it. I am wondering if they will accept it or try and wriggle out because it’s not the original. Anybody else in the same boat????
Fiona | 3 July, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Like many others I am still awaiting a claim from the CAA and have had an extremly frustrating couple of months trying to get hold of anyone who can give me any answers. The problem my friends and I have is that when we made the booking with TCD we had to pay a deposit of £33 of which we have had an invoice for. Between the three of us we can not find this £33 on any of our bank statements. I spoke to a member of staff at the CAA who stated that this could have been an admin error from TCD, however a further phonecall to CAA revealed that they do not believe it is an admin error and with out the bank statement confirming which account the £33 came out of, we were not going to get any of our money back!! Even though we have an invoice for the £33. We have checked and re-checked our statements and made numerous phonecalls to our banks and there are no transactions made to TCD for this amount!! Has anyone one else had this problem? or can someone please give me some advice on what to do next?
Fiona
Darren Cronian | 3 July, 2009 at 11:37 pm
@ Fiona
Have you paid any money to them? From your comment it seems that the money you have paid is the deposit, which you cannot see deducted from your bank account(s). If you haven’t had this money deducted from your accounts then why would you receive a refund from CAA. Sorry, a little confused.
Fiona | 3 July, 2009 at 11:38 pm
Sorry should have stated in the above that our total claim comes to £3000 and we have bank statements for every other transaction just not for the deposit of £33. We were willing to disregard the deposit however we were told that this was not an option!!
Darren Cronian | 3 July, 2009 at 11:42 pm
@ Fiona
Ah, okay, now I understand. If you have proof that you have paid the £3000 (minus the deposit) and assuming the holiday is ATOL bonded then I cannot see the reason for the delay, but without knowing the full details of the type of holiday booked it is very difficult to assist. Did you pay for the holiday by debit or credit card? I’m assuming debit card from your earlier comment.
Fiona | 3 July, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Our booking to be honest is a little complicated as the holiday was paid for using 4 different debit cards and £150 paid by a credit card. We booked a holiday to Florida through Travel City Direct which I believe is ATOL protected.
Darren Cronian | 3 July, 2009 at 11:59 pm
@ Fiona
Hm, as much as I would love to be able to help you, there’s not a great deal I can advise on. If the full amount had being paid by credit card then it would have been quicker to apply for a refund through your credit card company.
You won’t be protected with a debit card payment (but it might be worth checking with the bank if you haven’t already) so the only route of protection open to you would be through ATOL and the CAA.
Have you put your issue into a letter of complaint, with copy of your bank statements and invoices? If you haven’t this might be a route to go down. Send it recorded delivery and keep copies of everything.
Fiona | 4 July, 2009 at 12:15 am
We have sent all our bank statements and invoices (for everything apart from the deposit) off to the CAA, however the only answer they can give us is that because we do not have the statement for the deposit of £33 we are not getting any of our money, if i’m honest I feel like this is 1. either a delay tactic or 2. just an excuse not to give us our money back as we haven’t had a good justification as to why they need this statement if they have the invoice as proof that we have paid. They were unable to give us any details of debit card used, such as the name of the holder of the card or which bank the card belonged to.
As to being protected by our Banks unfortunately you had to have made a claim with 120 days I believe and at that point we were still awaiting a reply from the CAA. Do you have suggestions on how we can prove that the money has not come out of our ccounts and may have been an admin error where the money has come out of another persons account not related to our booking?
Darren Cronian | 4 July, 2009 at 12:26 am
@ Fiona
To be fair to the CAA, they will have very little paperwork from the travel company, and will be relying on you to confirm that the deposit and payments have come out of your bank account. Have you tried contacting your bank to get a letter confirming that the deposit has not been taken out of your accounts? This is the only way I think you can prove that the money has not come out of your accounts.
Fiona | 4 July, 2009 at 12:39 am
Thank you for your suggestions and replying to me. In fairness this was advised to us by a member of staff at the CAA and we are all in the process of getting the letters off our banks. However, when asked if these letters could help us gain our money back we were told that it was worth trying but that we should be warned that it would still be highly unlikely for us to obtain our money with out a bank statement, which as you can imagine is frustrating because again no one could give a justification as to why.
Darren Cronian | 4 July, 2009 at 12:49 am
@ Fiona
Hmm. It seems strange to me too why the refund is based on confirmation of the deposit. I’ll ask around to see if anyone can explain why this would be.
Fiona | 4 July, 2009 at 12:53 am
It’s strange to me too and I can’t quite get my head around it! That would be really appreciated and thanks again for your help.
stan | 4 July, 2009 at 6:57 am
Hi Fiona ,we were just the same ,we paid a dep by one personc cc and the balance using 3 different peoples debit cards ,then we paid £28 for an extra just 3 weeks before they went bust ,we sent all statements ,didnt mention the £28 as it wasnt on my tcd statement so thought not to bother with it but they must have details from tcd as they sent us a letter asking for statement showing the £28 ,the reason they need this is as they willnot pay out any perons part if they have made a part payment via cc ,so in other words if the £33 has not come from the bank accounts they will be thinking it has be made by one of your partys cc and would then not pay any of that persons payments back and they will not budge on this ,i did manage to send a statement and got paid last week ,good luck and i hope you get sorted soon as it is so stressful!
Sara Hart | 10 July, 2009 at 7:36 am
Hello Fiona, we were also in a smilar situation, we were travelling with friends who made the initial booking on our behalf, our £44 low cost deposit was paid via our friends bank account for the low cost deposit (£11 each if memory serves) he could not find this statement anywhere showing the full amount paid (he has many accounts!), so he filled out a form waivering this part of the refund.
However, CAA would not have any of this and demanded that we find the statement or no refund at all, end of story!!! they did however, give me the last four digits of the card used to pay the amount, the transaction date and the exact amount. We took this to our fellow travellers and he managed to locate the account used thankfully, so maby if you ask them for this information you may be able to find the account.
Aparantly all they need to confirm is that the payment was made by debit card and not credit card, because if a cc was used then the whole amount will need to be claimed by the cc company. Luckily for us they are now finally happy with the information provided and after 10 months have finally sent it through for payment, god knows how long that will take but at least it has been authorised.
Hope this helps a little.
Sue Penn | 12 July, 2009 at 9:26 pm
I’m soooo fed up. Booked a holiday last year as did many others. It went bust 25 days before we were due to fly out and rather than disappoint the kids a very kind family member lent us the £3000 to take a different holiday. Now we haven’t received anything back so I phoned the CAA who said another office were dealing so I phoned them (not a freephone number) and was kept in a queue for half an hour and then told there was no one to answer my call and disconnected, this has happened a number of times so have tried to email but have got no reply whatsoever. We haven’t been able to book another holiday for this year as we can’t depend on gettin g this money back, I would really appreciate it if anyone had any advice, thanks for reading!!!
John Harding | 30 July, 2009 at 11:36 pm
Hi,
This may be the wrong forum for my problem, but here goes: We were booked for Cyprus in October 2009 via Kwik Travel and had paid all our costs. In August we were notified that Greece and Cyprus Direct Ltd had gone bust and we had no holiday. If we paid the cost in full again we could get the holiday and could claim our first holiday costs back. This we did and had a great holiday. We completed an ATOL claim back in September 2008 and are still waiting for payment. Our problem is, that all the paperwork from SEGA keeps refering to our XL claim. When I write to explain that we are claiming for Greece and Cyprus Direct I get another letter stating that my XL claim has now been registered. I have twice made telephone contact with the CAA-SEGA and explained the situation and been promised a call back but nothing happens. Anyone know how I can break this deadlock?
Nick | 3 August, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Dave | 12 August, 2009 at 7:20 am
I lodged a claim with the CAA when XL went bust. The claim was acknowledged on 17th November 2008. I received a letter from CAA two weeks ago. This is the first communication that I received from them since the acknowledgment. This letter stated that my claim was missing a particular receipt from the travel agent. Thre was a receipt from the travel agent (and from XL) in the package I sent of in the original claim. The claim form only states a “receipt from the travel agent”is required. The CAA are now saying they need to see an itemised, costed receipt for my deposit payment. The travel agency did not at that time issue such itemised reciepts. I suspect this is a holding tactic on behalf of the CAA.
I emailed the CAA eight working days ago about this, and have not even received an acknowledgment that the email has been received. I want to know two things:
Firstly, people on this forum have said they have been able to phone the CAA. Could they share the secret phone number?
Secondly, is there some ombudsman or government department that I can complain to about this?
Thirdly, if there is no means of making a complaint, how many people are there still waiting for payment and how expensive/possible would it be for those stillwaiting to take the CAA to court?
Dave | 12 August, 2009 at 7:38 am
Sorry, should have said I want to know three things. This has me so confused and angry that I have lost the ability to count and type!
John Harding | 12 August, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Dave, Take a look at http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1804 which might provide you with some answers.The links might also be helpful. My own claim predates the XL crash with the collapse of another company on 1st August 2008 and I am still waiting.
A telephone dialogue with CEGA at Chichester is possible, if you are prepared to hold on for long enough. I have had at least 4 such conversations but still no luck.
The Chichester number is 01234 621009 or 621444. The CAA London number is 020 7453 6350.
Good luck and bags of patience
Dave | 13 August, 2009 at 11:58 am
John,
Thanks for your reply.
I note that the CAA site says “Here delays have been caused by incomplete claims where original booking documents, including ATOL Receipts, issued by travel agents have not been sent in with claims. ”
But then the claim form never stated that such specific documents were required, only a (and I quote) “receipt from the Travel Agent”.
Methinks the CAA is indulging in blaming the victims as a means of delaying or preventing payment. If they decide not to pay out because these documents are not available (or were never issued in the first place) is there a mechanism for challenging that decision? As usual the CAA is not forthcoming about its own terms of reference and procedures.
Nick | 13 August, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Dave
The reason the claim form states receipt is that the rules changed in March 08 and claims can be made up to 12 months after a company fails. So if you booked before march then you would require a differant type of receipt. March onwards you would require a full ATOL receipt which an agent had to issue by law. If they have not you should go to the agent.
Nick | 13 August, 2009 at 11:45 pm
Generally there has been a lot of problems with XL and this has effect a lot of people. The CAA has had problems to, please remember it got 1 normal years worth of claims in one go and since then there has been more claims than normal as well. The have incressed resorces but to train a claim handler from recuitment onwards takes over 8 months.
Dave | 14 August, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Nick,
Thanks for the replies. They raise more questions that it answers.
First the serious questions:
Booking was made in November 2007. I have submitted a bank account statement for the travel agent for that date, and a statement of account to travel agent from Freedom Flights with my name on, dated November 2007. So do I also need the ATOL receipt as I booked before March 2008?
If I do not need the ATOL receipt, are they confused even after their eight months training, or are they just playing for time?
Now the rant:
I have a ticket. It has my name on. I have bank statements and a receipt that prove I paid for the ticket. The ticket is from an airline that has gone bust. The ticket has an “ATOL Protected” logo on it. The receipt has an “ATOL Protected” logo on it. It is that simple. Why on earth does it require eight months training to see that I had a contract with an ATOL protected travel agent and airline, and so they should pay me the money? Why on earth does it require nine months (and counting) to process the claim? Why on earth do they take ten working days (and counting) to reply to an email when they say they will reply in seven or less?
I have no sympathy with the CAA. If they have problems they are of their own making for being incompetent and not having a procedure in place for the absolute certainty that a major tour operator and airline would go bust at some point. They are set up to rake in money but to have no procedure to pay it out.
We were always told to book with reputable, ATOL registered companies. In the event, we may as well have booked with Johnny Cowboy from over the kebab shop. Our money would have been just as safe.
Nick | 15 August, 2009 at 10:26 am
Dave
I could not agree with you more, the trade has got on to the CAA both in 1964 and in 1992 (The other 2 big failures) and it has not improved. If you booked before March you need an ATOL receipt showing the amount paid to the ATOL Holder, each payment listed separately, not the new style ATOL receipt. The rules on receipts have changed 4 times in 6 years. (Only one is down to CAA choosing to, others are forced changes)
1) In the CAA’s defense due to certain company’s trying to cheat the system (make holidays cheaper by not providing the protection, so the CAA did not get the money) this has made it even harder for them.
2) I have now spoken to over 20 agencies that did not bend the rules and submitted claims. ALL there claims where paid by March. So if you have not been paid it leaves the question… has your agent done what there supposed to? (The CAA did not receive some claim forms till June. and I am talking 1000’s of forms). If yes why are they not chasing the CAA?
jackie | 18 August, 2009 at 6:59 pm
as with some of the other people who have posted comments i too have sent all relevant documents on three occasions my flight was booked through freedom direct with freedom flights part of the xl group i am getting really frustrated now with the lack of contact from the caa on this matter
karen | 19 August, 2009 at 8:17 pm
I also are in the same possition as the people on this site, I booked by holiday with Sunmaster and my flights where then booked with freedom flights, I my knowledge I assummed that by seeing the ATOL logo on the website and on the flight tickets (of which I still have) I would have had no trouble at all with the claim. But how wrong you can be. I was due to fly on the day that XL went bust so summided by claim straight away, heard nothing till 22nd November 2008 when I received my acknowledgment letter. Although I did phone a few times throughout the year I was fobbed off with the usual jargon of ” we have large volume of claims to get through and will deal with them all in time” and ” your in in the system”.
Then I was told ( in another phone call that I made to them) in May this year that my claim was transfered to London to speed up the claim along with another 18.000 other claims.
Then 4 weeks ago I recieved a letter from them asking for the reciept again along with any other itemised .documents I had.
I still wait,………… cant relly see the problem but there must be somting holding it up.
Will i ever see my money back I am beginning to wonder.
How can they get fway with this do they think that we will jsut forget about it with time.
Dave | 20 August, 2009 at 6:45 am
Thanks for the comments Nick. My claim was submitted in October 2008 and was acknowledged in November 2008. The agency is chasing up the claim as well, but they should not need to. Paying out money in this situation should not be rocket science, unless you begin with the assumption that all claims are fraudulent.
Karen, I suspect that the claims that were transferred from Chichester to London are the oustanding ones, and that the transfer to London was a complete disaster. My claim was also one of those transferred. The London staff are probably even more incompetent than those in Chichester. I did think that the CAA was deliberately witholding payment because it did not have the money to pay out. Now I think it is more to do with incompetence, poor management and lack of planning.
karen | 23 August, 2009 at 4:44 pm
I have received a letter yesterday sgtating that now they need further info, Although they state that tthay have ny receipt the problem is that it is not actually itemised, But this is the only one that I was send from Sunmaster at the time. With just gives a total cost for the holiday, not a full breakdown as such. I am going to phone Sunmaster tomorrow to see if i cannot get this problem sorted out, maybee I dont know if they can do anything but I have to try.
mark | 25 August, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Hi Karen
I am in the same position as you, CAA first said they needed an itemised receipt, as the one Sunmaster issued was an overall costing, then said they had not received the original in the first place !. I phoned Sunmaster, and they said they would send CAA a breakdown receipt (did not sound convinced they actually would). Then CAA sent me a letter saying a breakdown receipt from sunmaster now was not ideal, and I need an original receipt with the breakdown on , which Sunmaster did not supply in the first place!
I have text and phoned CAA since,and they do not reply, they seem totally untouchable and there seems no course for complaint.
I am totally fed up! As I can gather Sunmaster are in the first instance at fault for not itemising the receipt into Flight and Accomodation cost.
I wonder if Sunmaster were in Breach of Package Travel, or ATOL regulations for not issuing an itemised receipt in the first place?
karen | 25 August, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Finally managed to get through to Sunmaster customer service, They said that thye would fax the itemised reciept straight to the CAA. this sfternoon.
I will be phoning the CAA on Friday to see if the fax has got there. Nearly a whole year has passed now will it ever end!!!!!
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66 responses to “Appalling handling of CAA refunds from XL Leisure collapse”