I took a lot from my experience, thirty A4 note pad pages to be exact, and to put all of that into a blog post would turn off even the most dedicated of readers. Therefore, I thought I would start by highlighting my thoughts and opinions from the seminars and Travel BlogCamp this week.
Not enough collaboration
There is not enough collaboration between the different areas of the travel industry; companies are focused too much on their competitors, rather than working together in partnership and dealing with travel consumer issues and the environment.
Why are travel companies not collaborating and working with quality content providers like travel blogs?
Travel still does not understand blogs
The travel industry is 4/5 years behind other industries where interacting with travel consumers through social media is concerned. I was hoping to see more switched on travel companies, but whilst we have seen an increase in corporate travel blogs, no great strides have been made since I last visited the World Travel Market in 2006.
I spent ten minutes explaining what a blog was to the Best Western exhibitors.
Interacting with travel bloggers
Travel companies and PR agencies said in the Travel BlogCamp that they did not feel comfortable interacting with travel bloggers and were not sure if they should comment on blogs. I thought that was interesting and wanted to say that anyone can leave comments.
Travel Rants is all about discussing travel consumer issues so it is important that the industry and consumers have their point of view.
Whilst I cannot talk for all bloggers what most of us frown upon are those people who leave comments that are off-topic, that are promotional, and those that use search terms rather than their own name. I know of a number of people who work in the travel industry and comment on this blog, and they use either their forename or an anonymous name.
I do not have a problem with that.
Industry struggles to interact with consumers
At every seminar I went to, someone off the panel mentioned that the industry does not interact well with consumers. The answer is really hitting them in the face. They need to learn how to communicate with consumers though social media, be it blogs, forums, networking sites like WAYN and Facebook.
I asked my first ever question at a seminar to a group of people from tourist boards and organisations. Google were there too. How does the tourism industry think it will communicate with consumers, for example will we start to see tourism boards using blogs and forums.
The response made me smile. Blank expressions.
Related posts
- Travel companies starting to understand social media
- Travel media needs to look beyond news and give opinion
- Sat in the spotlight on the Travel Bloggers Summit Panel
- Travel companies twitter behaviour – Part 1
- Five things the travel industry could do better in 2009
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Matt Parsons | 14 November, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Hi Darren.
Really enjoyed the blog camp…
Think you may have a point about travel companies not understanding blogging. But I think this may be a UK thing. In the US, travel firms are doing well on the social media side of things – esp cruise firms.
And the PR firms too are switched on, using Twitter to engage with public, and blogs as an outlet for press releases.
I come from a traditional travel B2B magazine background, and competition between UK travel firms can be fierce (agents/operators etc) – so maybe there is a reluctance to not be so transparent. Things appear to be changing though.
Neil MacLean | 14 November, 2008 at 5:12 pm
The travel industry in the UK is inherently conservative when it comes to PR. It understands a small ad in the Daily Mail. It understands a nice write up in the Telegraph, even if the (hopefully) resulting stream of phone calls peters out after a week.
It just doesn’t (gross generalisation) understand the value of consumer generated content. These people take the public on holiday, they don’t expect them to do their marketing for them. Big mistake.
In the case of some of the larger players, much of the blame lies with the travel PR’s, their communications advisors, who are equally conservative and wouldn’t understand the value of a wave of positive blog coverage if it planted a wad of fivers in their back pocket.
Social media is a vital part of the modern marketing mix. In the case of many UK travel operators, their PR cocktail is a vodka short of a Bloody Mary.
Karen Bryan | 14 November, 2008 at 5:52 pm
It seems to me even some PR companies have not embraced the value of social networking to promote their clients in the travel industry, The PR companies are still fixated with print media circulation figures rather than the benefits of social media. For example if the owner of a luxury hotel engages a PR company to promote their hotel it could be better in the long run for that hotel to be written about in niche luxury hotel blog than in a the weekend travel supplement of a broad sheet newspaper. Although the circulation figures of the travel supplement look impressive, only a small percentage of readers will actually read the piece and be potential guests and the newspaper will be in the recyling bin in a few days.. Whereas a higher percentage of visitors to a luxury hotel blog are potential guests and the post has more “evergreen” value.
I’ve had this discussion with travel PRs and some of them blank out, other agree with me but say they have to give the client what they want, traditional media coverage. In my opinion it’s the role of the PR company to educate their client so that the client gets the most benefit, rather than the PR company just going along with the out dated ideas of the clients.
Kevin May | 14 November, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Interesting about Best Western. They used to have one of the most social media aware SEO agencies in the country working for them – you would think that at some point the digital marketing team would talk to the PR team. But probably not……. 
Murray Harrold | 16 November, 2008 at 9:57 pm
I hate to bring this up, but reading about the blogging industry (eh?) saying that the travel industry does not interact with them – I am a bit bemused. I mean, why? Why should they bother to interact at all? They may read blogs and pick up a few pointers but “interact”? What are you going to need to “interact” ? – a whole department of “interacters” – how do you target and budget that cost? You cannot quantify the success rate, either. You could employ the Golgafrinchians – er, I mean PR people, but that lot (and marketing types) can tear through a budget faster than engineers. So, here we have a new extension of PR and marketing – the bloggers – who expect their respective indutsries to shell out for the ability to ….. well, what precisiely? A blog is not going to sell a holiday. You cannot put a sale down to a blog and until you can do that, ie put some hard sales numbers beside a blog, you aren’t going to get anywhere. Let’s face it, in travel, even travel agents don’t get paid by airlines and they get a pretty pisspoor commission, even from many holiday companies – and agents can define exactly what sales their labours have produced, so a fairly airy-fairy thing like the bloggers are a long way down the pecking order. It’s no good banging on about the “value of social media” etc etc unless you can put some hard numbers down. Sorry to have to play devil’s advocate but all I can say is – dream on, son!
Dean | 17 November, 2008 at 9:43 am
Darren
I always find that your comments are interesting and vald, but I’m not sure you heading in the right direction here.
I personally believe that the barrier exists more with the reader. Web2.0 has taught people that user generated content is king, review sites, consumer blogs, facebook groups, forums etc have all flourished. With people interested in seeing their comments and interaction with the world out there for all to see. It is easy to hide behind the anonymity of screen names, and post without fear of embaressment.
But this means that large companies are viewed with suspicion, when they make comments, that somehow they are jumping onto the bandwagon when they are not really welcome.
The trick for companies is how they use social media, in a why that is not seen as a direct sales pitch, or make comments that are relevent and unbaised.
I write a blog, purely as I specialise in one destination, and like to think I am a little bit of an expert, and have information and tips/ideas to pass on. But I feel uncomfortable using this as a vehicle for my own company, somehow it just feels uncomfortable.
I worked for a large multinational for 10 years, and we looked at introducing a blog/question type of website. In the end it was decided against, purely on the basis that the consumer saw it in a negative way – almost like corporate types trying to own this space on the internet, and the distrust that it could have led too.
Craig | 17 November, 2008 at 5:18 pm
There are some interesting points you make – running my travel site has been an eye opener at how people seem to be unwilling to work with a smaller travel guide site!
I have a fair amount of experience talking to large offline companies (travel as well as other markets) about their online marketing and am baffled that things appear to have not moved on as much as I would have hoped at this point.
Murray Harrold | 17 November, 2008 at 7:29 pm
There may be another reason for this. Blogging appears a wonderful opportunity and a “not to be missed” marketing opportunity – er…., to Bloggers and Blog site owners – but what about everyone else? Look at travel. The cheap stuff – 2 weeks in Benidorm brigade, may not be able to afford a computer – question – does the B and C groups own, use and involve themselves in a computer? It is all very well talking about Facebook et al, but who uses facebook? My eldest daughter does – though she is 15 (going on 18) and hardly a target market for some far flung holiday – yet. Who buys the expensive stuff? Either AB groups who may well either a) get their PA to do it and just tell them what to do – they do not need a travel blog to help them or b) The empty nesters/ over 55’s or indeed older people, many of whom may not even know what a computer looks like. So, what needs to be done here, is work out who the people are that use (travel) blogs (we know a lot of people do – but who are they!) and are they people who are likely to be influenced in their travel decision. Then one gets to the thorny subject of monetise-ing (eh?) the blog. Now, even travel companies have an uphill task getting people to buy online (and there is a lot of money going into just that – they used to pay it to travel agents to do the job for them but now they pay umpteen times the cost of a travel agent, as a means of distribution, for arguably worse sales conversion results) so bloggers may have a real problem here. Unless one can find a way of putting some numbers behind a blog, it will remain a hobby. The blogging fraternity may be/ are a bit star-struck doing their thing, but they do need to do some hard and fast market reasearch (NOT marketing!!) to find out who they are communicating with – until they know that, it will remain a hobby. As time passes and the new generations come along, things no doubt will change, but until then, it will remain a hobby!
Sandwagon | 18 November, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Fantastic debate here Darren.
It’s very fair to say that expecting the industry to play ball with bloggers is optimistic because let’s face it, even the world’s big players beginning with TH… have to watch every penny they already spend and more so justify additional spends to their boards. Investment in planes makes sense; investment in a blog may not hit home – until the figures do work and it’s staring them in the face.
I’m personally waiting, and working towards on my blog, the day that travel content published online by travel experts liberated by the medium of the blog, produce content as universally and commercially appealing as the print broadsheets, guidebooks and glossy mags . Then blogging can shed any negative vibes it still gives off, remain fresh and free to publish, but also be taken seriously by the industry.
There’s a fair way to go me thinks, but at least we are all taking about this and attracting the attentions of the industry. Plus I went to WTM, same as Darren, as ‘Press’. That in itself is a sign that we’re being taken a little more seriously in the media sphere.
Tamara | 18 November, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Murray, I think that companies are way ahead of you. Facebook is certainly not all populated by 15 year olds. Most businesses who run blogs have web metrics that know exactly what visitors they are getting and can profile thier customers.
Having introduced Omniture to our site I can now tell exaclty how many visitors my blog send to my main site and who goes on to book. When they book I capture their data and so can profile them.
Blogging is no longer a hobby – ask STA – their TravelBuzz muist have cost them a fortune – it certainly wasn’t done for fun.
Murray Harrold | 18 November, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Which companies? I never said Facebook was populated by 15 year olds (may be 15 year old mentality, mind… ) . Okay, so STA Travel – and what? Blogs and bloggers need to show they can produce hard income for travel operators, not airy fairy talk (indeed, any figures!!). So far no-one has done this.
Okay, I get three enquiries in a travel agency two I can convert. Cost to operator in commission say 7-12% of the holiday value, if an airline ticket then cost to airline naff all. The agent runs his own business. So too, do bloggers so how much would they have to earn in commissions – if the operators are willing to pay them commission in the first place – or from affiliate revenue (about 2 or 3 %) to make the thing viable?
Or, if STA travel can do it (given that STA were traditionally a studenty sort of outfit) to what extent would a Thommy Cook blog work – and why should it work any better than the website? (Maybe why Thommy Cook are not on the bandwagon – after all they are not stupid) In any event STA have not had the blog for that long, so let’s see what hard and fast figures can be expected as a return for all this investment.
So far there are none and still I say, the only thing I have heard so far is fluff. You say this travel buzz thing cost a fortune, again no figures and no return suggestions. Commercially sensitive? Yes – but bloggers will get nowhere unless they can say “I will put my name down to produce x number of conversions” or “…a return of X% on any given investment”. I hope you can prove me wrong!
Tamara | 18 November, 2008 at 1:26 pm
You are right – it is all still new – we have only had proper stats for a week or two – so very early to tell but the fact remains that it is happening – it’s definitely no longer just a hobby.
Sandwagon | 18 November, 2008 at 2:01 pm
You certainly are right. The big boys aren’t daft. They’ll be watching with interest to see what works and what doesn’t. .
Murray Harrold | 18 November, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Exactly, Sandwagon, so now the bloggers need to stop jumping around worrying about if they are jouranlistas or not and other red herrings and produce some hard evidence. Then comes part 2 and this is the tricky bit. The last thing you need is for the thing to be too successful. If so, the big boys will come in big time and all the Darrens and Alex thingy-me-bob’s and that nice lady from Scotland will all become also-rans – unless you are 100% sure that you have control of what is going on. This is why it was quite dangerous having all those Golgafrinchians, I mean PR types, hanging about the place. The bloggers need to control the development of their business – as long as they can; mind you, they do need to create a business in the first place (which they haven’t as yet) – then they need to be the innovators and the drivers behind producing the revenue – that’s REVENUE – and stop telling everyone how wonderful it all is and generally, get out of their own and each others backsides. So, you bloggers, you have a lot of work to do!!
Darren Cronian | 18 November, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Murray, please could you re-read my post.
I never said that bloggers should be interacting with travel companies (even though you are doing that right now!) I said PR agencies should be interacting with us. Travel companies need to be interacting with CONSUMERS. I find your comments rude and arrogant, and no one has said that indepdent blogs would become more than a hobby, or earn large of revenue.
I write this blog because I ENJOY it. I do it as a hobby in my spare time. There’s no way that a small independent blog can earn shed loads of money. No one has said that. All of my ad slots are sold out by travel companies, but that is not the point. There are many advantages of a company like Mr and Mrs Smith and others to have a corporate blog, too many reasons to go into here.
It’s also not just about MAKING MONEY its about interacting with the consumer offline and online which travel companies, agencies in particular are very poor at. It’s about building your brand. Raising awareness of your company and the products you sell.
I found your comments offensive and rude. You go off and write your comments without any thought into what you are writing. Blogging and social media is here, so is the internet. So either deal with it, or ignore it.
Murray Harrold | 18 November, 2008 at 4:20 pm
I am sorry if I have caused offence. I am being realistic and many of the other posts on this thread are following the same line – no company is going to interact with anyone if there is nothing in it for them. PR, Travel or anyone else. If you read what Tamara says passim, you will see that the PR people were not at the Boot Camp because they wanted a drink and a chat before going home. They are looking at what can be made out of it and how…. for their clients, in this instance, the travel industry. You view this as a hobby and are very good at it, but others think otherwise and the thrust behind many of the speakers (and, frankly, other comments above) was a) how to monetise the thing and b) how to engage the operators (via, if you prefer, the PR companies). Why would STA travel want stats and figures if it wasn’t to get a line on the value of any future of engaging or “interacting”? I am aware that Blogging and Social media is here to stay, never mentioned anything different and find it enjoyable. You actually ask, in your piece, “Why…. are travel ….not collaborating…. ” it is tad naive to suggest that the industry should collaborate “for the benefit of the general good”, so to speak; in an industry with as tight as margins as travel they are not going to do anything unless there is something in it for them….. What I am saying, is that there is an excellent future for the blog and the travel business to work together but there has to be (financial) consideration for all cooncerned and thought needs putting in to both how to manage and realise that.
Craig | 18 November, 2008 at 7:39 pm
The global webmaster at STA Travel, Craig Hepburn, is a good guy and vey forward thinking – I worked with him a few years ago and know that he is pushing online extremely hard.
SCS | 19 November, 2008 at 9:28 am
I totally agree that travel is 4~5 years in social media. I wonder if this is in part because travel happens more “out there” and people spend most of their time online when they aren’t traveling. Once the infrastructure is more established I think portable devices like the Kindle and iPhone will integrate the act of travel with social media more.
Sandwagon | 19 November, 2008 at 10:54 am
Hi All
Just a quick comment from me. I’d also add the point that travel drags its heels for financial reasons. Investment in this areas is really tough to get through the board, even of multi-nationals. There are plenty of forward thinking people working in travel but they don’t hold the purse strings and the business case has to be black and white to move forward. This is only personal experience of course, but it helps explain why things take time to get off the ground in travel when they’ve been out there in other spheres for years.
A new plane and a stockpile of fuel makes more sense of a travel company than investment in a slow burning social media tool. That is until they start seeing the real commerical success of those who were able to take a punt on it.
Tamara | 19 November, 2008 at 11:25 am
@ Sandwagon – you are right – it’s the new and entrepreneurial companies that tend to drive innovation in this sector. Looking at the PhocusWright innovators list – most of them are new companies.
Sandwagon | 19 November, 2008 at 11:51 am
@ Tamara
Indeed – plus without the burden of the operational side; product development, contracting, reservation and resort staff etc, online start ups have much lower costs and less risk.
Murray Harrold | 19 November, 2008 at 11:53 am
Fair enough, perhaps a way forward is to identify any other (service) commercial sectors who already have “taken a punt” (as you say!) on social media and have, as a consequence, obtained a quantifiable, tangible benefit? You allude to this in your post passim: “….seeing the real commercial sense….” This may be then be used as a basis to move forwards in convincing the travel industry. However, there is still the other side of this coin – how will the blog creator benefit? Given that travel operators are reluctant to pay anyone anything, save for throwing the occasional bone, it is only through affiliate advertising that the blog creator could benefit – and that medium exists already. For the sake of regularity and to avoid risking upsetting anyone further, may I assume that we are discussing here, the benefits of social media as a commercial tool as opposed to how blogging may develop on a non commercial basis?
Sheila Scarborough | 13 December, 2008 at 12:20 am
Darren, hang in there and keep leading/teaching. Many in the travel industry simply will not see that their cozy world (as they thought they knew it) is burning down around them. The UK seems to be much slower even than the US (which is so slow, it makes me crazy.)
You have broken new ground in the UK. Stick with it. I know it is tiresome to have to explain social media over and over again (I teach Web 2.0 workshops and I am not generally a patient person) but you WILL start to get traction. Some WILL begin to see, and you will be one of their guides.
The rest will soon get tired of having their butts and business models soundly kicked, and will start listening. I am seeing the wave beginning to crest here in the US – it’s coming your way.
Meantime, keep hanging out with blogger-types (who “get it” even if they don’t write about travel) and also keep spending time with those who are confused and questioning. Help them.
You are in a powerful spot; it’s just hard to see it sometimes.
Kevin May | 14 December, 2008 at 11:44 am
Sheila Scarborough | 15 December, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Why Kevin, of course Darren is the UK Consumer Travel Savant – we ALL know that!
Julie Ovenell-Carter | 1 April, 2009 at 1:45 am
Hey Darren, been following your tweets for a while, but it was the news that you were invited to talk tourism with 10 Downing that got me to your site. And a great site it is too.
Across the pond in Canada, we have similar issues: the travel industry has been slow to embrace social media which is odd given the very social nature of travel and tourism. The rapid demise of print travel sections is forcing them to refocus their attention on other avenues–blogs, twitter–but they are being dragged kicking and screaming (except, perhaps, for Tourism BC, which seems to lead the pack of tourist boards here when it comes to social media).
I have no doubt things will change dramatically in the next 12-24 months, especially with the approach of the 2010 Olympics. (There is a bit of sturm und drang here right now because VANOC is not exactly embracing bloggers when it comes to media accreditation.) The reality is that the train has left the station, and tourism will have to run like hell to jump on the last car–but most will.
The upside of this transition is that is has produced new employment and consulting opportunities for those writers/bloggers among us (myself and yourself, to point to at least two) who know the travel biz from the ground up and can point with a degree of confidence and authority to how social media can benefit both tourism suppliers and consumers.
I’m going to subscribe to your blog right after I submit this. The British government is wise to listen to what you have to say. Cheers from damp Vancouver!
Julie Ovenell-Carter | 1 April, 2009 at 1:54 am
Yeesh. Just went and read the full post on your being invited to talk to PM re: tourism in the UK. You got me. Happy April Fool’s to you too–but wouldn’t it be truly thrilling if it HAD been true?
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27 responses to “Bloggers view of the travel and tourism industry”