Darren

As you said this is a shock. Here is some tips.

Customers who have booked a package are protected by ATOL. A lot of customers who have booked flight only will also be protected. If you booked to travel today do not go to the airport. If your on a ATOL holiday relax, try and contact the local office alternatives will be arranged.
ATOL has set up a help line 0289 185 6547 for XL customers.

If you have booked though a travel agent contact them. (Please keep in mind the information will take time to come though to us as well. While we know more than the public it still takes time). Agents will be able to confirm if your protected or not.

Other companies will use XL Airways for there flights. If you are on these companies and not travelling this weekend alternatives will be arranged keep in contact with your travel agent or tour operator. Things will be arranged by date of departure so if your not travelling for months or next year expect things to take days or longer if travelling next year.

Finally I know this is bad, but please keep calm with companies you contact we are all trying to help. Some times we do not not know more than you while we trying to sort things out.

Report comment

This isn’t as a big as surprise as some might think. The company has been in talks about refinancing for a few weeks – always the first sign that something is not so good.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2008/09/01/28667/xl-confirms-talks-on-refinancing.html

Terrible news for XL customers, however.

Fortunately this kind of situation is typically where the travel industry comes into its own in some respects, with other companies organising flights and the ATOL scheme kicking in.

Report comment

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We booked our holiday through Thomas Cook with XL. Our family is supposed to be going on holiday on Sunday.

Will they find us another holiday or will I have to book something myself.

Report comment

My kids are sat at the TV crying
Taking a holiday to Greece this weekend and I have just told them them that we will not be now.

Report comment

This is so sad. They have been a great client….. and I have many friends who work in the web, commercial and technology teams there. This one hurts.

Report comment

Thank you Darren for keeping us up to date.

We have family stranded in Florida and at the moment crossing our fingers that they return home safely tomorrow.

I will let you know how they get on when I find more information.

Report comment

This is so so so sad.

200,000 holidaymakers will not be going on holiday.

That is shocking.

Report comment

Darren: Some bloke from TUI is Dermot Blastland, MD UK.

Report comment

It Is always a shame when something like this happens,but thank god for the protection schemes in place so that those affected get looked after, carry on their holidays as normal, repatriated or refunded. Not so those that have booked direct with the airline! It’s time the Government acted on this one immediatly, The Industry has been campaigning long enough for changes! I can foresee some urgent changes from Mr Brown in the not too distant future. Hopefullky.

Report comment

Darren/Rohen

Ok I can breathe again now. We just finished rebooking all our customers who are travelling in the next few weeks and I thought I add some advice.

Remember your money is safe, another holiday can be booked you will still be going away.

If you have a Ticket on Departure get to the airport early, companies are going to deal with lots of extra passengers and this will take time.

In resort try to relax when you arrive, some resort staff are going to be overwhelmed with passengers they may be expecting 50 to arrive tomorrow and are now finding out they will be getting 120.

Lastly companies will be making alternative arrangements’ by date of departure. They can not and will not tell you what till it is confirmed. Please bar with them as soon as they know there are able to pass on the details.

Report comment

I booked with Apollo Direct (part of Co-op) for a Kosmar holiday.
Can’t get through on the phone; email bounced back.
Any ideas anyone ?
Are you supposed to try booking an (expensive) alternative or wait for them to try and sort out an alternative ?
Bizarre thing is that the flight was with Air Malta.

Report comment

It may be worth noting, if customers have booked direct with XL, travel agents will still help with find alternatives and then with the ATOL claim.

Also for those they have booked flight only direct with the airline outside of the ATOL system and are abroad flights are being arranged and more details should be available latter today. These will be with the CAA and also major tour operators. More information will be posted on the ATOL website later. A fee will be charged.

This is why Darren travel companies with ATOL’s are calling for all flights to be protected.

Report comment

Dave

go here for information http://www.apollotravel.co.uk/all/XL-Leisure-Group/

Report comment

We have just put full details of how to claim and what to do if you have been affected by the collapse of the XL Leisure group on our Blog site at http://www.selectworld.travel as the CAA’s Servers are overloaded at present. Hope this helps those looking for information.

Report comment

Nick,

thanks very much for your help – couldn’t get through – I imagine they’re snowed under.
Cheers

Report comment

Still no joy on the phone!
Is it best to wait for the agency to answer, or just go and book something else with somebody else ?
It’s just that I was quite set on going to my destination, which presumably might have been sold to someone else by now…

Report comment

Yes, well, Court Line, Intasun, Exchange Travel . Here we go again! Travel agents will be working non stop to try ad re-book people. I suggest, have a think.

If you are re-booked, you will need to pay again and possibly an awful lot more than the original cost of your holiday. You will, IF the flights were part of a HOLIDAY (ie an all in, good old fashioned package holiday) get your money back through a claim through the CAA – possibly ABTA but it depends if the HOLIDAY company was ABTA bonded.

YOU WILL NEED CHAPTER AND VERSE – every invoice, tickets you may have, records of booking forms and if paid by cheque, the actual cheques back from you bank, credit card slips and statements – the works. Do it now.

If you send off part of the info, it will take longer as the CAA will just send endless letters wanting this and that. FLIGHTS booked will need claims via credit card companies. You will find it hard to get through to anyone for the next few days.

I suggest you basically count this holiday as stuffed and reconcile your self to that. Do not fret about getting through now, a philosophical attitude helps – never mind, the money will be got back and one can go later! The heart attack is not worth it and totally unneccessary.

Daren, when this cools a bit it may be interesting to hear about this apsect in general terms. After all, the cracks are showing at Easyjet (job losses) RyanAir (profit warnings) Alitalia is basically bust.. There is a lot going to happen, perhaps we need to talk about what one can do about it.

Report comment

Darren,

Just had a question from a customer, so thought I share the answer with everyone. If you booked accommodation only with one of the following companies you are protected by ABTA. Contact them for a claim form.

Kosmar Holidays,Travel City Direct, Bmibaby holidays.com, Bmibabymajorca.com, carshop, Cruise City, Cruise City Direct, Discount Holidays, Excel Holidays, Hotelshop, The Florida Skytrain, Ticketshop, Transatlantic Vacations, Travel City International & XL
Holidays.

If you’re booked with Medlife Hotels then this is not covered. Make sure it is this company you’re booked with, as there are several companies trading with Med and/or life and/or Hotels in there name. The others are still trading.

Report comment

Hi Darren
Deja Vu as another one bites the dust. I remember a couple of weeks ago commenting here on the Zoom collapse, and how the people who DIY their holidays by booking direct basically have no cover (there may be some from credit cards – but they wont get you home)

And here we are again

I have clients in Cyprus with XL so hopefully I can organise and get them home. The strange thing is that they phoned me on the outward journey last week, asking if the rumors that XL were going bust was correct.

I replied “No of course not, the UK 3rd largest holiday company – if they go bust we are all in trouble!” How stupid did I feel this morning!

Luckily those who used ATOL agents like Freedom Flights or Kosmar will be covered and helped, but those who booked direct with XL.com or Medlife hotels will lose their money unless they used a credit card (again this won’t pay the difference in any costs)

I hope that today is a turning point, and consumers can see that the protection of an ATOL is worth the extra cost that may entail, but also consumers are waking up to the fact that realistic prices must be paid for their holidays – or this will become the norm rather than the exception

Report comment

Hi Darren
it’s also interesting to note that only the UK part of XL has collapsed. The French and German parts are still in business
This raises a couple of questions

Is the travel consumer protection stronger in the UK? Meaning that XL knew that the CAA would have to step in and help the majority of passengers?
Is protection weaker here? So if they collapsed the German part, would the government there force them to help people affected?
Is it easier to get away with it in the UK? I think it’s common knowledge that the German employment laws are a lot stronger, so getting rid of all the staff may be easier here.

I’m not an expert on the protection, but surely the EU could be forcing XL France and Germany to help passengers?

Report comment

Booked with XL? You may not have to pay again.

UK tour companies have started to accept deeds of assignments, mean you can credit the amount of your XL booking to your new flight or holiday. Please note to do this you will need all your XL paper work plus things like credit card bills and to sign a form saying so.

@dean these companies trade separately in each country. There is protection in all EU countries.

Report comment

FAQ passed to us by Hays, some useful info -

What happens if my client has booked with another operator, eg TCTO, with an XL flight?
The operator, eg TCTO, is responsible to find alternative flights for your client. If an alternative cannot be offered, a full refund will be made.

What is covered under ATOL / CAA?
The Really Great Holiday Company – trading as Excel Holidays
Kosmar Villa Holidays
Freedom Flights
Aspire Holidays

What is a Deed of Assignment?
An assigned claim allows the customer to assign their refund to another specified Tour Operator.
EG. Customer originally pays £500 for a holiday. A new holiday is made with the Tour Operator that is accepting Deeds of Assignment which results in the customer not having to pay the £500 again and the Tour Operator receiving the refund from the CAA.

What does ‘Accepting Deeds of Assignment’ mean?
If an operator ‘accepts Deeds of Assignment’ they will take over the booking at the original value without you having to take funds again from the client. It is essential that the ATOL claim forms and the Tour Operator Deed of Assignment forms are completed and returned in the specified timescales.

Where can Deeds of Assignment be found?
Commercial will e-mail Deeds of Assignment out directly to your branch for the operators that have agreed to offer them.

When will our client get their money back?
ATOL claim forms need to be fully completed and sent to Commercial for review before submitting to the CAA. A refund will then be made from the CAA. This will depend on how quickly the CAA can administer all the claims.

What do I advise clients who are currently overseas and don’t know what is happening?
The CAA will be arranging for people currently abroad to complete their holidays and fly home. The have set up emergency telephone lines:

Calls from within the UK: 0870 5900 927
Calls from abroad: 02891 85 6547

Should the client not just claim back on their credit card?
No, a full refund will be made by the CAA on completion of the necessary ATOL claim forms.

I booked with Freedom Flights but am not travelling with XL Airways – is my flight still ok?
No, this will need to be re-booked and the client’s funds need to be re-claimed from the CAA.

Are flight only’s covered by ABTA
They are covered on the ATOL and need to be re-claimed as per the procedures you have.

A customer has contacted us who booked direct with XL – can I rebook them and do the Deed of Assignment?
No, if they booked directly with XL they need to follow the advice given on the CAA website.

A customer has contacted us who booked with another travel agent – can I rebook them?
You can re-book them but they need to complete their claim with the Travel Agent they originally booked with as the Agent needs to supply additional details with the claim to the CAA.

Report comment

Hope this helps

Source: TTG

XL Leisure Group travel insurance supplier Rock Insurance has stated that XL.com customers are financially protected if they took the insurance when booking flights.

Managing director Antony Martin said: “I have read a number of articles today where other travel companies have commented that customers who booked flight-only directly with XL.com are not protected.

“This is not the case where travel insurance was purchased with XL flights as Rock Insurance policies cover this exact scenario.

“When we designed the policy for XL we took into consideration the potential exposure of customers who purchased a policy with their flight.

“Today, Rock has already helped hundreds of customers who have already travelled or are due to travel with XL.com.”

Martin believes this confusion highlights how important it is for customers to understand what cover they are buying as many products offered by other suppliers leave customers stranded or out of pocket.

Believing that Atol cover left nearly 40% of customers unprotected against financial failure of airlines, Rock Insurance spent 12 months developing a policy designed to cover situations such as the collapse of XL.

Its recently-launched Supplier Failure Cover is a standalone insurance policy to cover component-booked holidays not covered under Atol.

Martin added: “Given that it is estimated that 20 million customers each year arrange independent holidays not covered by Atol, the size of the requirement for this policy becomes clear.

“Unfortunately, it is only the collapse of the UK’s third-largest tour operator that has brought this in such a focused way to customers.

“The policy provides cover up to £5,000 per person to replace any flight, rather than just refunding the initial price paid in a marketplace where prices for replacement flights are often double the original.”

It also covers failures such as bed banks, individual hotels, sea crossing, coach or train trips and even when flights are cancelled and no replacement offered within 12 hours so that the customer can continue with their trip.

Report comment

First round of repatriation flights are up on the CAA site – http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1804&pagetype=90&pageid=10052

Report comment

Hi everyone

Some very interresting thoughts and useful information on how to handle claims etc.

One side of the equation, though, always seems to be forgotten when this sort of thing happens in the travel industry. We get industry people (ABTA etc) coming on the media to say that our money is safe etc, we’ll get a full refund.

HOWEVER, the re is rarely any consideration for the impact that events like this have on people’s wider lives, notably in terms of work and family. If you had planned a two week break, got leave from work, made arrangements for the pets etc etc and suddenly found yourself grounded at home, unable to book an alternative and unable to get alternative time off, where is the bonded cover for this?

Likewise, is everyone’s boss sympathetioc when you don’t show into work because you were delayed back being “repatriated”?

I am an academic with in interest in work and lifestyle issues. If anyone reads this who has a story to tell about how events such as XL, Zoom etc have impacted on your lives beyond the money – work, personal lives – I would be very interested to hear your story vis this website or alternatively direct to t.g.baum@strath.ac.uk .

Thanks

Tom Baum
University of Strathclyde in Glasgow

Report comment

@Tom
ABTA have naff all to do with airlines! ABTA are to do with package holidays, it is the CAA who deal with airlines and are under intense pressure not to do what ABTA and others (ie nearly everyone else in travel) want them to do, which is to levy a pound a ticket on all airline tickets. That said, you are right. The repercussions go even further. One low cost airline is good at opening new destinations – people buy houses there, business opens as a result. Airline stops the route – and can do so at a whim – problem. Jobs at the newly opened airport go, people who bought houses and business which opened have a problem. Now, what we tend to forget is that the Great British Public does not have a right to cheap air travel – any more than I have a right to a cheap Ferrari or 15 bedroomed mansion. The (partly media fuelled) focus on “cheap” travel, always cheaper this, the deal here, the drive to DIY holidays, avoid the travel agent – is in a major part to blame. Boeings do not come at £10 a week on the HP (bypassing, for a moment ,the environmental lobby) – as we have seen, margins are that small that any fluctuation can have such devastating consequences. Perhaps it is time for travel to be priced at a sustainable level – both financial and envoirnmentally. This will, in some measure, get rid of this sort of collapse ( when we arrive at these daft prices, we have these collapses as we did with Court Line, Intasun, Exchange Travel etc). Another factor – why are credit card companies in the business of acting as de facto bonding agents for dodgy airlines? Sure as hell, this will be reflected in everyones’ credit card charges. Credit card companies should require a hefty bond before they will allow any airline to become a merchant.

Report comment

Murray Harrold,
The focus on cheap travel is not media fuelled. If the media was effective we’d all listen to the first class ads and be flying in flat beds.

Fact: It’s demand fuelled. We the consumer, control the market and decide that price is the factor we want airlines to compete on. As such, we force them to operate on tiny margins, and you are right that new routes set up and stop as soon as they are unprofitable. I expect this will happen more and more, so those people with houses abroad had better keep an eye on airline routes…

Report comment

Hi

I have a question I’m hoping someone on here will be able to help us with.

We were in Gran Canaria for the last fortnight when we heard ,via eavesdropping on a conversation on the next balcony, on friday morning that XL had gone bust. Like many others we had no idea what to do so immediately started trying to ring around for advice. The only person we could get in touch with was our rep who told us to ring our tour operator for further advice as it wasn’t to do with him as he was only our hotel rep. We tried and failed for hours to get through to our tour operator to no avail but finally managed to speak to someone at an XL call centre dealing with these enquiries who told us “sorry but you have to make your own way home”. Thinking this was the only way forward as it was the single piece of advice we’d been given we rang back to the UK and got a friend to get us onto some flights which we managed to do on the same day we were originally due to fly back. However these flights were into Gatwick and not Manchester so all in all including the cost of hiring a car to get us back to our own vehicle at a secure parking lot in Manchester the cost of us returning home is running at £610 excluding phone calls etc…

Now the bad news I’ve contacted our tour operator this morning, who now that we are back are answering phone calls, has told us we can’t claim because we booked alternative travel ourselves and didn’t turn up to the airport as we would have without the collapse of XL. I was wondering if anyone could shed any light on this because like I say we were advised to make our own way back so did what we were told by the only person who could give us advice at the time. We weren’t aware that if we had turned up to the airport we’d have been provided a flight etc… obviously if we had known differently we wouldn’t have paid out £460 for flights to the wrong airport.

Our own travel insurance doesn’t cover airline insolvency and our tour operators are unwilling to help judging by the replies I’ve had so at the moment we are £610 out of pocket for following instructions.

Does anyone know of a way to claim anything back… the tickets were booked for us by our tour operator and we did pay them by a credit card. I intend to speak to them later today for some advice but would also be grateful for any info you people in the know might have.

Thanks for any advice

Gareth

Report comment

Interesting. On first glance, you should have stayed in your holiday hotel, enjoyed the rest of your holiday as per normal, gone to the airport as per normal and a flight would have been made available (as per normal). What you have been the victim of, is, dare I say, pisspoor advice from all concerned. I do not know what a “hotel rep” is for, if the reps are clueless when it comes to an issue like this! Who employed the rep? Was it a rep, employed by the hotel – or the tour operators rep? I need to know before making any further comment. The xcel advice was also bad – BUT – given that the Xcel person was probably about to lose their job and may not of known how their flights fitted into your arrangements (it is not that easy to tell), is understandable and you cannot really blame them. Now, as to your tour operator. Notwithstanding what I need to know about whose rep it was at the hotel, the response form the tour operator has a rather tenuous grip on reality. Firstly, they should have been on hand to tell you what to do when news of this came out. They may have been busy; but sorting out things in a crisis is their job. That’s (a main part) of what they are there for. And they should have made arrangements to make sure you knew what to do. The response you received was a get-out based on hindsight and their failure to make adequate, correct information available at the right time. (the right time, by the way, being any time you need advice). As to any claim you may have, it is imperative to know more about this hotel rep whose was he (or she) who employed them etc. When I know this I may be able to guide your further. Look, I know this is “shutting the stable door after the horse etc etc” – but next time, please think about using a travel agent, a good old fashioned high street one. In this age of cheap this and that and cost cutting etc they are about the only people who have a holistic and essentially unbiased, pragmatic view of what is going on and what to do. So, in fine, Let me know about the rep and we will then see what optons you may have..

Report comment

Hi Gareth
A Tour Operator who had contracted flights with XL would have made alternative arrangements, and many of those operators who had clients due to fly back the day after the Collapse had managed to get replacement flights on the same Friday as the collapse. One Operator I know had replacement flights arranged that left Dalaman in Turkey within 15 minutes of the Original XL charter.
The Question, I suppose is how long was it from Friday to the end of your holiday, and how much time was spent trying to get advise from your own Tour Operator or their local Handling Agents in the resort about your return flights home. The XL Call center I believe was not your Tour Operator, so could not advise you on what that Tour operator had done as far as alternative flights and the arrangements.
Did You also Book with a Travel Agent? As they would have advised you of the correct situation, I.e. Holiday as normal and an alternative flight will be provided by the Operator in conjunction with CAA.
I Would advise you to download a CAA claimform and try to see if you might have a valid claim for out of pocket expenses. You would have to proove that every effort by yourselves had been made to your Tour Operator, Local rep, Hotel Manager, Local Handling Agent, and if applicable your UK Travel Agent ( If you used one?) had been made. Times of Telephone calls or names of people spoken to etc etc. Also make sure you have copies of Invoices, receipts of all payments made for your original holiday and also the Extra expenses you paid for an alternate Flight.
If You paid for your flight as a seperate entity and seperate Accommodation. I.e not a package, you wouldn’t be covered.

Personally, I do not think that you will get anything refunded, but give the CAA a try and as long as you can show that every effort was made to gain information before panicking and buying new flights, you might be lucky. Good luck anyway .

Report comment

@jo
Fair enough! What I was trying to get across was that, over the years, the public has developed a perception that one should, as it were, be able to fly around the world, business class, and still have change from £10. Your Point taken, of course. Further, the travel industry has done naff all to help itself, really, but has continued to pump heavilly advertised, “cheap” holidays and travel into the market which, in turn, has fanned the flames. That said, those tiny margins lead to this sort of thing. As we will never learn, it will not be the last.

Report comment

Firstly thanks the comments and advice.

We booked through an online agency that is ATOL protected. I think they must get deals from lastminute.com as I’ve seen their name on some paperwork. The rep worked for med hotels I believe and had no affiliation with the online agency we booked with that I am aware of which is why he pointed us back to the company we booked with. We tried for 5-6 hours to speak to anyone last friday which I know doesn’t seem very long but when you have no idea what you are supposed to be doing and you can’t get hold of anyone to get some real advice it seemed like a lifetime. Eventually someone at XL did pick up and gave us what appears to be awful advice which is why we rang home and got someone to book us return flights. Like I said in my last post theres no way we would have paid £460 for flights we didn’t need if we had known differently. We did manage to get flights approx the same time we should have flown with XL anyway, just to the wrong end of the country. We couldn’t get through on any of the numbers we’d be given and couldn’t contact the web based agency we booked with as their phones were constantly busy, no-one at any time during the last 3 days of our holiday tried to contact us to assure us that everything would be fine. We have since found out that Monarch flew a replacement flight that we could have boarded FOC but weren’t made aware of this. Surely this kind of information should be made available when you booked, there should be an “in the event of” booklet or something to avoid this as I’m sure we aren’t the only people to have booked return flights not knowing what else to do as our flight was full of people from all over the country trying to get home. I’ve read statements saying “no-one should be made to feel stranded” but thats exactly what we thought we were.

We found out on the Friday, like most other people I suspect, and weren’t due to fly back until the Monday. We may have been hasty in our decision to make our own arrangements but we only did this is as it was the only advice we’d able to gather after hours of trying so jumped on it thinking we’d be struggling to get a flight as the other 70,000 people around the world would be doing the same. We didn’t understand what ATOL protected meant, we thought right we need to get home and because it is ATOL protected we’d be able to get a refund for doing this not that flights would have been laid on as we were never provided this information.

I’ve downloaded the claim form but the advice on the agencies website we booked with is not to send this yet. It does also state that no refunds will be given for anyone making their own arrangements to travel back which is good advice, just no good to to us now The online agency has told us to try and claim through our travel insurance due to the bad advice and the fact we couldn’t contact anyone who knew more than us…

Thanks again for your comments and any further advice you can give us.

Gareth

Report comment

Right, basically, it looks like you should have stayed where you were and carried on as normal, so, you may well be stuffed on that front BUT there may – and I stress may – be a claim against “the agency” for downright stupidity. In order to do this, you really must sort out with whom you booked what. Medhotels are an accommodation agency only but there is a matter of acting as principal or not as the case may be, plus we need to know what lastminute had to do with it and if we are getting into detail, this may not be the right place to do it! You must have at least one invoice and that must state on it 1. The name of the agency and 2. What was booked. Mind you, even the medhotels rep should have had some rudimentary knowledge of what was going on, frankly. (Get’s back to my comment about “holistic” knowledge – after all a rep is not there just to flog outings tickets, they are supposed to help). In my opinion, “the agency” (when we work out who they are) may be already be a bit worried – you will not be able to claim on travel insurance for bad advice but the agency does have a duty of care and to go AWOL, or un-contactable at such a time is simply not on. DEPENDING on what your invoices say!

Report comment

will i get all my money back if i booked with travel city direct ? inc park and car hire which was part of the package ?

Report comment

@Gary
The Jetsave website says this – it may or may not be of any help to you, but might be worth a shot:

“If you have booked a holiday or flight with Travel City, please go to your local Thomson or First Choice travel shop. In most cases they will be able to transfer the value of your booking to a new Jetsave holiday with the minimum of fuss. The Thomson and First Choice retail staff will be able to reclaim the value of your lost holiday.”

Report comment

@Gary
It will be depend on what you have booked and how. Actually, nearly any old travel agent could help along the same lines. Basically, what is happening here (as it were “behind the scenes”) is IF you have a holiday covered by an ATOL or ABTA bond (if a package) Thomson or First Choice will rebook you (with them) (probably without a discount) and then you, Gary, write over your claim to them. Sure, you save having to fill out all the forms but Thomson or FC are going to want exactly the same info from you as the CAA will so you may as well do it yourself, claim the money back and then go shopping for a holiday. Thomson and or FC will naturally tell you some sort of cock and bull story and some other waffle and say that you can’t have a discount ‘cos they are being so helpful. And you have to take their insurance etc., etc., etc.There is no such thing as a free lunch…..

Report comment

Hey! All you people will be very gald to hear that the top bosses of XL have founf new jobs. What a relief! Whilst you sit there wondering how to either a) get home or b)what to tell the kids about their stuffed holiday or c) get you menoey back, you can rest assured that the erstwhile bosses of XL are safe and sound! Yes, exit XL and enter….. Kiss Air! Financed by, er, well, XL money basically – even the route checking for the new outfit was helpfully undertaken by XL and – and this is a real killer – XL even made sure the new bunch had a shiny new Porsche with the reg KI55 FLY! Og course, the XL bosses are really sad about what happened and they promise faithfully not to have another crisis – until they have another crisis. So, you can now fly KISS – and KISS more oney goodbye! (Source for all this and the, er, “concerned” comments of shafted ex-XL staff. customers and travel agents – the Travel Trade Gazette) Oh! Yes! And new boss, Moss, said that there is now a great market and a lot of cheap second hand aircraft. Well, surprise, surprise! Trebles all round and Chocks away!

Report comment

thank you for all your comments, My partner sent all the forms to ATOL on the same day as the collapse so i do not have the advantage of going to a travel agents. i want to re book but i’am not sure what refund i will get and info is very scarce.

Report comment

I’ve just finished filling in the ATOL claim form for flights we had booked to Samos for next year with Freedom Flights. The covering letter is saying to send the form back to the CAA but the travel agent (Travel Republic) is saying to send it back to them. Which is right?

Also, I believe XL were the only airline who did the Manchester – Samos route. Has anyone heard which airline will be taking this over?

Report comment

Darren:

that link you posted goes to an affiliate site.

on what basis do you say Monarch is “not very reliable”?

Report comment

The CAA. I cannot think of any reason why your agent would want the forms – unless one had re-booked something with them and they were taking “the claim” in part payment.
Deal directly with the CAA. (ESPECIALLY if you are dealing with an online travel agent) Make sure that you have competed the form in full and that every last piece of paper they want is there, and originals too. Take a photocopy and send the parcel “signed for” or “recorded delivery” – you do not want all that original documentation getting lost.

Report comment

re Monarch: good to see you playing with legal fire as always, Darren.

Report comment

Hey! Don’t knock Monarch. They are one of the few remaining, original “charter” airlines, have been going a long time and have a pretty much sound and sensible base. They may be three hours late, but that’s a tad better than not at all (‘cos the airline you booked with have have gone bust). Monarch have a few scheduled-type routes but apart from that are the backbone of the charter business. They keep their heads down, don’t try anything funny and just get on with the job – and of all the airline companies, will probably still be around after many others have gone up the swanny!

Report comment

i do actually agree completely…

Libel lawyers might think differently, alas.

Sorry – off-topic.

Report comment

@Jo

Actually, Travel Republic are a bit naughty in that they “dynamic package” (ie do DIY type holidays) without an ATOL and have been up for some stick for doing this. They have now, fianally, decided that ATOL may be a good idea, given the gip that the industry has been getting. IN FACT, Travel Republic rely on being covered by other people’s ATOL’s – which is possibly why they want the CAA forms back to them – so what I would do is ring them up and ask them what the – bleep – they think they are playing at. Kane Pirie, MD at Travel Republic, only says that he is “reasonably confident” that business done with them is covered by other people’s ATOLs – but in these cases the CAA does look at chapter and verse, by the book. The CAA has had a few agents in their sites and I am afraid to say Travel republic is one of them. LOOK everyone, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH, if it looks to good to be true, it usually is, etc etc – all these internet selling types may look nice and cheap and clever but do yourself a favour – book with a high street travel agent (or interent branded derivative thereof) , that has a proper ABTA licence or an above board ATOL (Note: Holidays need ABTA not ATOL) and even these Travel Trust types are not always up to par (travel trust relies on money going in – but if it doesn’t go in, in the first place….)
Jo, send the forms back to the CAA. Keep copies, ask TR what they are at and let them have copies if they want them – but the CAA dolls out the dosh so they must have the forms. I think TR may not want the CAA to see what they have been up to…

Report comment

Thanks to everyone for all your comments and advice.

I’ve just phoned Travel Republic who have said I need to send the form and paperwork to them because they need to fill in their sections (they need to give details of whether they had got to the stage of giving Freedom Flights my money).

As for rebooking, I think I’m going to wait a while – everything seems a bit up in the air at the moment. Passage below from the thomsonfly.com………

Some flights shown on this website are ATOL protected by the Civil Aviation Authority and, if so, will be clearly marked as such. Should you purchase a flight departing from, or arriving at, Bournemouth, Cardiff, Coventry, Doncaster, Gatwick, Luton or Manchester, such flight will not be covered by ATOL protection, unless specifically referred to within the booking process, in which case the price of your flight(s) includes the amount of £1 per person as part of the ATOL Protection Contribution we pay to the CAA. Our ATOL number is 2524. ATOL protection does not apply to all travel services shown. Please ask us to confirm what protection may apply to your booking. ATOL protection extends primarily to customers who book and pay in the United Kingdom. Click on the ATOL logo if you want to know more.

…….but it doesn’t break down the cost enough to show whether the ATOL charge has been applied. And the flight number is still XL!

Report comment

… actually, Travel Republic should give YOU the details of if they paid Freedom Flights or not but I suppose, in all fairness that will show their commission. So, fair enough. Just make sure that you make copies or everything you send. Again, use special or recorded delivery.

Report comment

@Murry you keep saying that ABTA are to do with package holidays. Your information is misleading. You require an ATOL to provide air holidays. Please see the CAA for more information. http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1080&pagetype=90&pageid=9800

Do ATOL and ABTA provide the same tour operator protection?
No they don’t. ATOL, as part of the CAA is a legal requirement that travel companies, like tour operators, have to comply with if they sell air holidays. ABTA is a travel trade association that has a bonding requirement for non-air holidays as a condition of membership. ABTA does not bond air holidays, but requires members that sell air holidays to hold ATOLs.

When you’re looking for flights or holidays, check the advert /agent/ website for an ATOL number – the firm you contract with should hold an ATOL and should show its number.

ABTA is like shop selling a car. If they sell you the complete car from an ATOL holder, and it goes wrong you are protected and will get a new car or your money back, or they will get you home at no extra cost through the CAA. However, if the ABTA shop (eg Travel republic) sell you a car as a DIY components and it is built from different suppliers and it goes wrong you will NOT get a new car or your money back (it is confusing I agree). You can keep the wheels but the company they put you in touch with to give you the engine has gone bust. So you are left with the wheels but can’t go anywhere. This is my simple version, it is more complicated.

I imagine about 80% of the poplulation are very confused and think ABTA means ATOL. It doesn’t. ATOL holders are proud to have an ATOL. Don’t be afraid to ask “is my package holiday protected by ATOL?” because those who have and ATOL or sell ATOL protected holiday packages, will shout about it. Those that sell ATOL protected holidays are proud to tell you, and do not hide in loopholes.

Report comment

My information is not misleading – We have to keep things simple, here, given the particular circumstances. In your car analogy, it assumes that the ATOL holder has gone bust – but does not mention anything about if the actual seller of the car goes bust before the seller has, in turn handed over the money to the car maufacturer. You are going down the mine a bit on only one aspect. If I buy a total package holiday from an ABTA agent, where that ABTA agent is acting as a retailer (ie the contract is twixt the ATOL holder and the client) and the ABTA agent goes bust and depending on what money has been paid etc etc, then there could be a call on an ABTA bond (or Travel Trust etc), not the ATOL. Now, as I have also said, it is important to establish what a client has been sold in the first place and, more importantly, how it has been sold. Indeed, Travel Republic does not hold an ATOL and has only now come round to the idea that it may be a good idea to get one – they believe (and believe is the right word) that TR is covered by the Freedom Flights ATOL. So, we are into the possible realms of split contracting, who is a principal, etc etc. There are three aspects here, one is the provider of the holiday (the ATOL holder – if air, of course), the agent involved (be it high street or internet), and how the holiday sold has been put together. I, for example, trade with an ATOL an IATA licence AND ABTA – now, what happens with the business travel? If I book a business traveller a flight, a car hire and a hotel – do I need an ATOL? No, I don’t. So in your car analogy, I have created a car and sold it , quite legally and above board. Mind you, life was a lot easier when we had stabiliser….

Report comment

Important Claim Forms

If you booked though a Travel Agent you MUST return the form to them. The CAA will not pay out if you do not do this. They will basically return the form to you and ask you to pass to the Travel Agent. This is because on the claim form there is a small section for the Travel Agent to complete and then forward to the CAA with there central Payment System statement shown that monies have been passed to Excel. Any further questons contact your Travel Agent and follow there advice

Report comment

@Nick
Sorry, yes, you are quite right. My memory failed me – last big one I had to deal with was quite some time ago. …. One should stll keep copies, though, and still send (if not a high street agent) by recorded delivery. The travel agent does have to complete their bit to show cleared payment to the operator (which will, of course, reveal their commission)

Report comment

@Murray – you did say “Note: Holidays need ABTA not ATOL” that is misleading.
Also “If I book a business traveller a flight, a car hire and a hotel – do I need an ATOL? No, I don’t.” I will stay clear of confusing this topic further as this thread is based on XL selling to holidaymakers. I work in travel too. I know what is going on. There are more pirates in travel than in the car trade that I gave as an example. I disagree with some of your comments which I find biased too with, to quote “even these Travel Trust types are not always up to par”. Have you an axe to grind with them?

What the travel business should push for is government clarity and guidance to ensure consumers will be given back the confidence in booking their holidays. This thread I feel, only goes to show what a complete farce it all is.

Report comment

hi all, does anyone know when we will find out if we are entitled to a full refund from ATOL for holidays booked with travel city direct?

i want to rebook but are a little scared as we have not heard from anyone ref our claim even thou we sent it re-corded delivery on the 12thseptember.

Report comment

I can assure you, that as we have ABTA, IATA and an ATOL, we are not a pirates. We have the bonding to prove it. Travel Trust may be viewed as the poor man’s ABTA – TT is a trust and there were issues (which were, I recall, mentioned in the TTG and TW) to the effect that, with the trust, if the retail agent did not pay in, then there would be nothing to pay out. This cannot be the case with ABTA bonding. You are in danger of confusing people, taking a comment out of context. Holidays do need ABTA (or Travel Trust or something) when booking with a package with an agent who acts as a retail agent (ie not acting as a principal) as this effectively protects the money between the travel agent and the principal. Otherwise, an agent could take lots of money, not hand it over and do a runner.

Report comment

@Darren

Yes, can we have a new thread, please. We are going off topic and we could use somewhere to, er, debate a few issues. Put 3 travel agents together and they will form 4 seperate marketing/ point of view groups… I am still not a pirate and I have never sold cars, by the way.

Report comment

Darren

There is a lovely picture on the front page of last weeks Travel Press showing the CAA claim office literally buried under mail sacks. I think your talking closer to 100,000’s of claim forms.

As regarding if you have a claim with any company in excel group, if you have purchased a flight only or a flight and hotel with them and it shows on an invoice with the ATOL logo on it then you have a valid claim. However as a guess I would say the CAA will still be sorting this out at Christmas. All Travel city claims are valid as they only sold via there ATOL with a flight.

Murray other thing of course is central payment statments can cover up to 50 bookings on one page so they all have to be matched up.

Report comment

@ Gary
Sorry it could take some time. It reads on their website:
“It would be helpful if customers could refrain from telephoning or e-mailing the Claims Unit while these arrangements are made.”

You will find more details on the CAA web page (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1804&pagetype=90&pageid=10048) about your options as you booked with Travel City Direct and covered by ATOL 3827.
Good luck.

@Murray, you protests too much, don’t get in a fluster. I didn’t call you a pirate. I shall say no more on the matter.

Report comment

Yes, Nick – it will take time but everyone can rest assured that there is enough money, they will get to you and you will get your money – as long as the regs are/ have been complied with, of course. Last one this big was what? – Intasun? I was trying to remember another big one after that, I am sure there was one….

Report comment

Thank you all for the reassurance, it doesn’t help though when you have saved for so long only to have your holiday taken away from you. I hope i will get my money back in 2008

Report comment

I was booked to go on holiday the day after XL crashed. I spent a lot of the fri rebooking another holiday within the timeframe. Will get my money back for the original holiday as paid with a CC, but I paid an extra £1300 with BA for virtually the same holiday. Is there any chance of me claiming any of that money back as no one seems to know?

Report comment

@Sharon.
Short and easy answer to this – No.

… Why you paid an extra £1300, though, goes in some way to answer why XL went belly up in the first place. Read the posts on this blog re: cost of holidays.

Report comment

Did any of the hundreds of those people stranded or left without tickets get compensation of any sort? don’t companies have insurance for things like that? with today’s currant economic situation, that really scares me. what if this happens to other airlines?

Report comment

@Murrey

I checked… no there has not. ILG was last big one. There have been some middle sized ones but no big ones.

Report comment

Naomi,

Airlines, unless you by a ticket form a agent (that protects there tickets like us). There is no protection, you lose your money. Buying a ticket from an Airline is unprotected, so use your credit card or buy protection.

The Airlines lobby very hard to make sure they do not have to provide protection for your money.

Report comment